Thirty Years In Consulting, And Nobody Wrote The Job Description with Kim Snyder | Ep066

Manuel Martinez: Welcome everyone. My name is Manuel Martinez, and this is another episode of Career Downloads, where each episode I basically hit the refresh button, bring on a different guest to learn more about their background and their experiences, to try and uncover any actionable advice that you can use as you’re managing your own career. I’m excited for the guests I have today. So I have with me Kim Snyder. Her and I met at a networking event, which is going to be a recurring theme that’s going to come up throughout this conversation. And it’s really just going to show the power. You know, I’ve posted a lot about this on LinkedIn, just meeting people. You never know who you’re going to meet. And again, it’s not for what they can do for you. A lot of times, as you might be able to learn from them, maybe you’ll be able to help them out and, you know, maybe even bounce ideas or worst case, you make a new friend. So with that, I’ll introduce Kim.

Kim Snyder: Hi Manuel. Happy to be here. Do you like Manny or Manuel?

Manuel Martinez: Either one works for me.

Kim Snyder: Okay. I like just Kim.

Manuel Martinez: You like just Kim. So Manny works fine, if you feel more comfortable. You know, I go by Manuel,

Kim Snyder: Perfect.

Manuel Martinez: but people that I know, they’re like, hey, Manny, it makes it –

Kim Snyder: Manuel works.

Manuel Martinez: a little bit more comfortable.

Kim Snyder: Manuel works. Well, thank you for inviting me. And this is awesome. And yeah, the networking theme is definitely prevalent in my life. And we met in a women in tech event, which is kind of in line with both of us. We have a tech background, right? But it also was very entrepreneurial, which I also have that background too. So it was good to see there was a handful of men there. And I always love to see men supporting women. So thank you for that. Thanks for having me. I’m happy to be here and share anything I can to help somebody. So if they, if it saves them a day or a headache or something, I’m always happy to contribute, so.

Manuel Martinez: Exactly. And that’s part of the reason – it’s one of the main reasons that I kind of started this podcast is just sharing other people’s experiences. Because I’ve done a lot of mentorship, I’ve done teaching, and people usually will ask like, hey, what do you recommend? Or you know, what should I do? And sometimes they’re going and asking questions that maybe I don’t have experience, but oh, I’ve talked to Kim. Kim mentioned this and they want more detail. And again, a friend of mine said, well, if you know these people, why don’t you just interview them instead of me having to be a third party or regurgitate, I can just share your story and your experiences?

Kim Snyder: There you go. I love it. Yeah. So it saves you time and it helps somebody else. Right.

Manuel Martinez: Exactly. So to start off, if you can tell me a little bit about your current role and responsibilities, just so that people get a sense of who Kim is today.

Kim Snyder: Wow. So I am a business owner and I do contract work for corporate. And I also do speaking and coaching and consulting in the corporate space and also the small business space, which is probably a big turn from the typical corporate route that I was at, you know, five, 10 years ago, even a couple of years ago. So sometimes we have control over a career and sometimes we don’t, right?

Manuel Martinez: Yeah.

Kim Snyder: So I have a contract role with a former corporate client of mine and I’m in there and I’m a test lead for software, which is something I’ve never done before. But because I like to, I like to learn things and I’m like, sure, I’ll give it a try. I’ve been on projects for 20 years. So how hard can it be, right?

Manuel Martinez: And of course, being able to pick up those skills along the way and you’re like, maybe I don’t know how to do this, but I have other relevant transferable skills. And maybe it’s even just the knowledge of knowing I figured out other things in the past. I’m going to do it again.

Kim Snyder: Yeah. And I mean, so, you know, I’ve been on enterprise wide projects for the last 20 or 30 years. And in that, you know, even though they were smaller or a subset of what I’m doing now, you still pick up things, right? So it’s still running a large project at a company, um, products that I’m not as familiar with, but look, I’m resourceful. So between suit, you know, searching however, want to, you know, Google chat and my network, I’m able to reach out to people and say, Hey, how do you do this? How did you handle this? Tell me what you’re thinking. And so, um, and then I’ve also learned through the years, which I wouldn’t have done early on as I will ask people when I’m work, uh, that I’m working with, what do you want to see? What else do you want to see? What else do you think would need to be tested? And as a consultant, you’re always seen as the expert. And so you’re not supposed to ask, but I’ve actually done that probably the last two to five years. And it’s been really transformational for myself. Again, wouldn’t have done it early on. Probably didn’t have the confidence, right? To ask those questions because they’re like, Hey, I’m paying you, you should know this, right? But I’m okay. Because I know most of the other stuff, but I actually want their input. So it’s been kind of an interesting role.

Manuel Martinez: That’s interesting. And, you know, kind of the transferable skills. And I know that that’s something, you know, understanding, you know, confidence building, that’s a different thing. And I think the more of an “expert” you become and the more experienced, you realize that it’s not about knowing all the answers, it’s asking the right questions.

Kim Snyder: Yeah. And I think it’s almost like you realize how much you don’t even know, right? I mean, like, I’ve been doing this for 30 years, and then I start to realize I don’t even know as much as you think, you know, so, you know, that’s why I think you have the confidence to ask a question. So again, you can still come in and be a valuable resource because you understand your level of knowledge, but you also understand how to get the answers. And I’ve never had a client question me about, are you the right person on them, the, you know, from a skill set standpoint. So I would say knock on wood or –

Manuel Martinez: Or on couch?

Kim Snyder: Yeah, knock on couch that I’m always happy with that, right? So it’s like, you always figure it out. And you have to. And so those skills translate to other areas of your life, right? I don’t know, I’ve taken the stuff that I’ve learned at work and then taken it elsewhere. So, you know, sometimes I’m the handyman at home because I can research and figure things out and sometimes I’m not.

Manuel Martinez: Got it. So now that we know kind of where you’re at and kind of what you’re doing, if you don’t mind telling me a little bit more about kind of where you grew up and eventually when you started your career, what you thought you were going to start doing and kind of what led to eventually, you know, landing your first job. And it may not have been a career. It might have just been, you know, your first job in high school or in college.

Kim Snyder: So I grew up in Southern California and I was an athletic girl and I was shy, quite shy. So even though I was often the captain, I didn’t like that role because I didn’t want to be in the limelight, which is ironic because I do a lot of speaking in presentations now. So there was obviously an evolution. So I did that. And when I went to college, I went to, I started out at UC Davis in Northern California and I was a business major and that’s not a business school, but I made it work. And I found that I was an accounting major and I didn’t like accounting. And so I said, well, if I’m going to pick this major, then maybe I should go work in it and figure out if I really like it or if I just don’t like studying it. So I ended up transferring to the University of Arizona. Well, I did do a couple of jobs where I’m like, okay, I like this accounting. Now I understand the practical reasons. And I worked for two small businesses, a stereo manufacturer and a wedding planner. And then I ended up transferring to the University of Arizona in Tucson, where I ended up getting an accounting degree and then an MIS degree, which is management information systems and then an entrepreneurship degree. So I got three degrees because I couldn’t make up my mind because I liked all three. And then I was also far enough along my accounting degree and I thought, well, gosh, even if a company’s not making money, you still have to account for it. So I said, I’m far enough along. I’m not going to quit on that. So let me keep that. And then MIS was new at that time. So this is probably 40 years ago, right? It was just coming out. And in fact, companies didn’t quite know how to hire for it. They were like, you have to pick accounting or you have to pick MIS? And I was like, but I want to do both. Like I want to use my accounting skills to help companies. And they’re like, yeah, so they weren’t ready for me yet. They weren’t ready for a lot of people, right? That was right when the big six or eight was starting all of their consulting divisions. Right? And so they were just like, they were coming from the accounting side going, okay, we know we need this arm of our company, but we just need people to do this. So as a result, I did not go in that field. I ended up being a quality assurance engineer for Unix on enterprise software. And I barely had some Unix in college, but again, I could always figure it out. And I got that job because I had called up somebody I had known and I said, Hey, I just graduated college. I know you graduated. Where should I go? What should I do? And he’s like, Hey, I work for this great company. Uh, or so that was my second job. But he’s like, I work for this great company. I said, awesome. Let me check it out. So that was my second job. But my first job was again, through relationships through my mom. My mom was like, Hey, I knew these couple of people. Why don’t you talk to them? I’m like, okay,

Manuel Martinez: Interesting.

Kim Snyder: Yeah.

Manuel Martinez: So obviously that – you probably didn’t know it was networking –

Kim Snyder: Had no idea – wasn’t even a term. It was – relationships. I knew my mom knew a lot of people and she knew how to get stuff done.

Manuel Martinez: Got it. And is that something that you picked up from her just understanding kind of the relationship building? Not necessarily thinking like, Oh, I’m going to do this. But seeing that that’s probably the exposure that you have to that to say, Oh, well, I guess this is what I just would want to do is just build relationships and meet people.

Kim Snyder: Yeah, I must have. I’ve never thought of it coming from her, but you’re right. Because, my mom was a teacher and, uh, I do a lot of teaching of what I do. And so I never thought, you know, I was like, Oh yeah, my mom was a teacher. So I guess that would come naturally as well. So yeah, I guess I never really thought about that, but yeah, she was amazing at relationships and, um, we still laugh. She could have anybody, she could delegate anything to anybody and we’d laugh and people would do it willingly. Um, and so, you know, it was funny to see her do that. And I guess I’m doing the same thing now.

Manuel Martinez: Well it’s a lot of communication and, you know, people say leadership, but really comes down to influence and influence, not meaning – not manipulation, right? You’re not forcing somebody to do something that they don’t want to do, but it’s really influencing to say, Hey, you know, can you do this or help me out? And again, I think building a relationship is helpful because if they asked her to do something, I’m guessing it wasn’t as good as she was as delegating. I’m sure it wasn’t just all delegation. They would come to her and she was just as helpful.

Kim Snyder: Yep, exactly. Yeah, it was definitely a two way street. So I definitely saw that because it was always helping people, right? And so I think it was always from that frame of work. Um, and so depending how they came to her and how they wanted to help, I guess that’s how I had learned it. I guess, yeah, interesting. Never thought of it that way.

Manuel Martinez: Well, and it’s funny because it takes an outside perspective at times to be able to say, Oh, I see the correlation or Hey, is this where it came from? And you’re like, I never thought about it.

Kim Snyder: Yeah. And that’s how somebody told me about teaching. They’re like, well, what did your mom do? And like, Oh, that’s how you must have learned this. Or, and I’m like, actually, yeah, it was never on my radar to teach. It was never, and I’m not saying “formally” teach, but I do a lot of knowledge transfer and helping people understand concepts to understand where we’re going, to make sure that they’re comfortable where we’re going. Right. So when I roll out large software implementations, which has been a majority of my career, people are coming in and they’re afraid of what – they’re afraid of the unknown. What is this going to do for me and my role and my company. Am I still going to have a job? And then first, the first thing is though, what if I don’t understand this? What if I look dumb and stupid? What if somebody realizes I don’t really belong in this role? I don’t know what I should be doing, right? You see that fear in people. And then they also don’t understand how to run a large project. So usually they’ve run little things in their department or division, but not across an enterprise. And the other question I used to get is like, well, how do we know what’s going to work? It’s like, well, we have a methodology. It’s our role to walk you through that, right? And you can still tell them and you just have to show them and they have to, I’m like, you just have to trust the process. And so, you know, a lot of that is knowledge with them. And then a lot of it is relationship building and getting to trust you. And so, you know, I guess those little inklings I had starting out very early have just grown throughout my career.

Manuel Martinez: So then, you know, now you’re getting in as a quality software assurance tester. Is it at this point, because again, entrepreneur, MIS, accounting, did you – ?

Kim Snyder: Not even in my mind.

Manuel Martinez: So you didn’t think to yourself, like, I’m going to make this my career?

Kim Snyder: No, it was enterprise software, monitoring objects there, right? Printers, computers, right? So it was pretty cutting edge at the time, because if you think about it, they had everything out. It was – it had gone from – they were still at desktop support. And so at that point, it was like, well, how do we monitor all these? Because we’re not having somebody go around in all of our locations, right? So can we monitor that? And so that was pretty cutting edge at the time, but it really didn’t excite me. In fact, I remember being at this particular company and thinking within three months, I was like, can I transfer to consulting because I really want to be in consulting, right? Which is what I wanted to do in college, but it didn’t work out. And so they’re like, no, you have to be in this role for a year. So like, literally one year in one day, I applied to be in the consulting group. And I’d already researched everything. So I knew it was like a transition. And it happened like on day two of like a year, because I’m like, I wanted to consult. That was my goal.

Manuel Martinez: And what is it about consulting? So, you know, you’re, you’re coming in, you’re early on in your career. What is it about consulting that really grabbed your attention and said, that’s what I want to do. And, you know, you’d been there for a couple, you know, three months. So you have nine months to prepare. So it’s not like at nine months you decided, Hey, that’s what I want to do. You knew early on. And that doesn’t always happen.

Kim Snyder: I knew in college because I had researched it. And I would even tell them during the interview, like, look, I get it. It’s not the same thing every day. I know you’re working on different problems. You’re there to help the customer. And that still didn’t matter. And so it was basically my same pitch to, you know, the internal folks. And that’s what it was that I liked is it was different every day. It was helping people and helping people solve a problem. And that those are the two things that I like, I don’t have the same thing every day now, right? Like, as a consultant, as a business owner, I walk into and there’s always something different every day. And I like that. Some people don’t like that. My husband, on the other hand hates that he wants the same routine. Right. So we are a perfect match, right?

Manuel Martinez: Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. You know, same thing with my wife. She’s very structured, likes the same thing.

Kim Snyder: Yeah.

Manuel Martinez: You know, I was talking to somebody earlier and just told them, even going through college and even now – in college, I never liked to sit in the same spot. Like I was so excited when I got out of high school, because, you know, you’re always assigned, this is your desk –

Kim Snyder: No more assigned seats.

Manuel Martinez: No more assigned seats. And I was that person that would jump around everywhere. And a lot of times people when, you know, going back to kind of mentorship is I tell them a lot of times the marketing is like, hey, get a cybersecurity degree and you can make all kinds of money and you can do all these things. One of the things that I usually ask them from the get go is, do you enjoy solving problems? And do you like change? They’re like, no –

Kim Snyder: This is not the career for you, yeah.

Manuel Martinez: This may not be the career, no, like this

Manuel Martinez: isn’t the field because –

Kim Snyder: It changes every day.

Manuel Martinez: And I think that was the thing for me is I love having to constantly learn, and – and, you know, the challenge part I never, I didn’t think consulting was for me until later on, again, because I dabbled in a number of things.

Kim Snyder: Yeah, I like it because it’s a challenge. Like people come with a problem and sometimes they don’t know it’s a problem, but I like figuring that out. And, you know, it’s like, I’m a bulldog and other consultants were like bulldogs. We’re going to get our teeth in it and we’re going to figure it out. Right. Like after hours, we’re going to figure it out. We’re going to like think about it all night. And like, literally you can see like I’ve done it and I’ve had friends do it. We’re like all in the meeting. We’re like, Oh my God. And people are like, what? I’m like, I figured it out. Like, you know what I mean?

Manuel Martinez: It’s not related to this meeting, but –

Kim Snyder: Yeah, sorry, like – because you’re thinking about it, right? Because you’re gonna figure it out and it, you know, you have to solve that problem. And, um, I think that part is really fun and it’s challenging and I like it and I like to do that. And I, again, it’s about helping people with a solution that makes our life easier. So, you know, I like that and I’m glad I continued on the right role. Because if I want to sign up at that desk job, Oh, I don’t think I would have made it.

Manuel Martinez: No, I can’t imagine. Well, and then it’s interesting that accounting was one of the areas that you looked at, but it was it more to just understand. It sounds like at one point you’re like, Oh, well, this will be a fallback, right? They’re always going to have to do that. But did you also think at some point, like it’s also helpful for me, you know, in consulting to understand the financial aspect, because not until later on in my career, you know, you talked about solving problems and I do that a lot now where I say, Hey, I, I solve business problems with technology and it’s understanding that, how to translate technical terms, technical, you know, products into – this

is the business solution: Here’s the financial impact. So is that something you picked up that early on?

Kim Snyder: I did. I figured that out early on. And the funny thing is, is I was originally an accountant and, or studying accounting. And then I said, well, that’s not dynamic enough. It doesn’t change enough. Like that’s kind of boring. I’ll look at tax because that changes every year. Right. So I recognized early on that I didn’t, I needed something that was more dynamic and changing. Right. So I think that’s probably one of the other themes that I would say is like, you have to recognize those strengths in yourself and lean into them and people, you know, they always say, don’t look at the things that you’re not good at. And I agree, just work on the strengths that you like. And I said, you have to recognize them and you have to communicate them. Right. And so if I didn’t like push and go, like, I know that this quality assurance job is like, I’ll learn what I can and what am I going to learn from it? But I know that I need to be in this other role because I know that fits me. Like if I didn’t push that, I could have sat back there and just been in a quality assurance, but there’s nothing wrong with it. It’s just not a fit for me. Right. And so, you know, somebody in that role would probably not like consulting. And so it’s just not a fit for them either. And so you have to recognize those strengths that you have and really lean into them and you have to communicate them. Right. I don’t think in the corporate space, we’re really good at that. I think in the entrepreneur space, we’re fantastic at that. I don’t think in the corporate space because if you say that the other side of is, well, if you’re really good at this, what are you not good at? And it’s like, well, who gives a crap what you’re not good at? But in corporate, there’s a lot of this hierarchical stuff, right? So people are kind of trying to one up you sometimes. And so if you’re leaning into what you’re good, people don’t think that’s good. I actually found the opposite, you know, again, later in my career and when I was like, I want to do XYZ and they’re like, Oh, okay. Well, that makes it really easy. Then we’ll just make sure that we put you on XYZ or we give you more of XYZ. I’m like, that’s what I’m like. I’m really good at that. I really enjoy it. Give me XYZ.

Manuel Martinez: Man, there is so much great information there. And I’m going to touch on probably two of these subjects. But the first one I want to go through is that early on, the ability to go through and advocate for yourself and know what you want.

Kim Snyder: Well, not totally early on.

Manuel Martinez: Okay.

Kim Snyder: Um, not until later was I more vocal, but I recognized it in myself. So I pursued those jobs.

Manuel Martinez: Okay. But were you, I mean, you were vocal enough to at least tell somebody. So like, even at the three months you asked for a transfer and they told you no, which I mean, you could have just sat there on your own or maybe researched it. But again, maybe not to the level that you’re comfortable with or that you did it now. But is that, did it start there where you started to kind of go through and say, Hey, I’m interested in this or I want to do this or how do I get to here or this role, or not really?

Kim Snyder: No, not – no. I knew that when those recruiters came on the campus the first time and they said consulting and they explained what it was. I was like, Oh my God, that’s what I want to do. And so for the, you know, three years in college and then the year afterwards, I was like, I want to do that. So I was a woman on a mission. So I didn’t really see it as kind of that approach. But now that I go back, there is a theme, but that’s not, that was not my frame at the time. Right. Because again, very limited, right? Experience. But now I can look back and go, okay, yeah, now it makes sense. But at the time it was like, that’s my goal. I’m going to be a consultant, come hell or high water and nobody’s getting in my way.

Manuel Martinez: So then now you were able to transfer in, you become a consultant. So how do you determine what your next role is going to be or what you’re going to do next? Everybody’s different. Sometimes it’s, okay, I want to move up within the organization. I want to move to a different position. Maybe there’s nothing here that I like, but I’ve heard through a different person or maybe I did some search that there’s something external. So how do you, and I don’t know if that’s a skill you had at that point, but kind of determining what you want to do next. For me, it was usually around the two year mark where I was like, okay, I think I’ve not mastered it, but to your point, like I’m good enough. It’s easy to me. I want that next challenge. And it was like, okay, how do I move up? There’s no room for me. How do I move to a different department? I can’t do that. Oh look, there’s an opening outside. I’ll go there. I didn’t think about it.

Kim Snyder: It’s the exact same thing, but it was more like, okay, I’m getting bored, right? And so somewhere along the line, I became more strategic, but at that point it was like, okay, well this is boring or I want to do something else. I want to do more. So if the company wasn’t going to give it to me, I know in that first role, I didn’t even think about going because they didn’t have other roles in that company that I wanted. They were a software company, so their consulting was very small. So if I wanted to sit in the consulting side, I didn’t even know about product management, which might’ve interested me at the time, but I wouldn’t have had the experience. So for me, it was going to have to be out. Plus, this was also during the eighties. So it was eighties and nineties. So this was like the, you know, .com boom in the Bay area. And so, you know, if you were staying in a company for two years, you were like old and why are you there? Right? Like everybody was hopping every six to 12 to 18 months. And so one of my friends that I met there, she gave me some of the best advice, which was, you know, Kim, whenever you move roles, either, you know, title, money or company, right? And that’s always stuck with me. So kind of similar to what you were saying, which is like, you get bored after a while, but like, if I’m going to make a lateral move, it better be at a bigger company, right? So I’m going to take the same title, but I would have a bigger company. So it would look better. And I didn’t really know where I was going to go. I just kind of was doing the corporate stuff. And it’s like, I just know I need to do that. And when you’re young, you do it because you work a lot of hours, you have a lot of experience and energy, and you want to learn. And I did that. And so I didn’t switch as much as other people did. Money has never been a driver. Money is nice, but it’s not a driver for me. It’s like learning, you know, helping people having a great place to work was always the main drivers for me, which is still the main drivers for me. And so even though I did, so I was there for one more year. And then that’s when I ran into a guy from high school. And he said, Oh my God, I’m at this great company, which was another software company, but complete opposite with my first software company. And so he was like, Oh, yeah, you can either go on the tech side or the business side. And since I just came from the QA, you know, quality assurance, I was like, I’ll just continue on the tech side. I’m like, I could go either, but like just pick one. I said, okay, I’ll go in tech. And I was like, okay. I mean, literally it was like, you know, I could have done like paper, rock, scissors. And it was like, I wanted to continue on that tech, which I’m really glad I did because the skills that I learned there, which you alluded to is troubleshooting. I think that the, I think it was there about seven years. The skills that I learned to troubleshoot in tech was fantastic. So, I mean, I, I still use those to this day, right? Even when I’m on the business or functional side, I can still talk tech to IT guys. Um, yes, it’s mostly guys, right? But I mean, I can still talk tech. I understand enough about it to understand where the problems are, but you get really good at troubleshooting. And then, you know, I was the least technical of all those folks, everybody in that group, we had a very small group. They were all guys that had worked at companies, like variety of areas. And I was a girl coming in with one year of QA insurance. And so, um, I got really good at asking questions and I was creative in my troubleshooting, not always linear, but I figured out the answer. So I remember being on the phone a couple of times going, Hey, Henry, like, Hey, it’s not X and it’s not Y. And like, there’s a problem here. I don’t know what the heck it is. He’s like, Oh, it’s the flux capacitor. And I was like, awesome. Hey, he says it’s a flux capacitor. The guy goes, Oh, I’m like, perfect. Like, I didn’t have to have all the answers, but I could at least like figure out the problem, get the person on. And you know what I mean? And so that part was amazing to do all the troubleshooting and it was financial software. So it was kind of like the best of both worlds for me.

Manuel Martinez: And that’s an important point, because that’s one of the things that I learned early on. So my one of my first tech jobs was help desk. And one of the things that I learned there that has served me well later on is doing the troubleshooting and – kind of now talking to you and looking back – the people that were really successful were able to troubleshoot and then when they asked for help, or when they needed something, it wasn’t like, Hey, here’s the problem. How do I fix this? It’s, Hey, here’s the problem. I’ve done x, y, z. What am I missing? Or what else could it be? What’s the problem? And people are a lot more willing to help you at that point. So is it that approach that really kind of helped you within the troubleshooting and kind of gather that information? Because you’re, again, you’re not going to know it all. But the other thing that I have, and you know, I don’t know if you want this to be a separate question, but you mentioned, especially that early on, it’s mostly guys. So what was it like having to navigate that like being probably the only female in that organization and probably in many organizations, because that’s not, that’s not common at that time.

Kim Snyder: It wasn’t, and it never was really an issue for me. I guess I just, I never saw the difference. I, you know, people are always like, what? I’m like, really? Like I just worked with a bunch of people and they happen to be guys, which was nice because guys are pretty easy to work with. So we had a small group of eight or 10 of us and there was a woman that was way older. And then there was me who was probably the youngest. And not only that, I had long blonde hair, I liked pretty young and I was from Southern California. So I could literally see these guys, these IT guys, I’d walk in a company and they’re like, you’re the girl that’s going to help me. And I was like, yeah. So I remember my first, no, my second client that I went to, it was painful. And the guy was like, well, how long have you been doing this? And he kept asking me all these questions. And I was like, what the heck? So my third client, I went out and I said, Oh, at this client, I did this. And at this client, I did this. And, and this client, we had this industry. And I’m like, I led with my experience and I never had a question after that. And I was like, I’m not going through this. Every time I go through a client, this is going to be painful. So I learned, okay, I look young, I look inexperienced. I look like I don’t fit here. Let me at least lead with the experience or the questions that I know are going to get them out of the way so we can figure out the problem. And I did. And so I never really looked at that. Now, I learned later on to leverage that. A funny story is in software, right? There’s always new versions of software. And we had a beta version that was horrible. And finally, after the third time of my manager sending me out going, you know, Kim, this client’s really pissed off. And they’re probably not going to use the software anymore. And every time I’d walk in, I’m like, Jim, this client wasn’t mad at all. And then I’m like, Oh, he knew sending out a girl was not going to get the same response as sending out a guy. Because if they send out the men, they’re going to the customer, which is usually men are going to yell at them, but they weren’t going to yell at me. We figured it out. Plus, the women are typically a little better on some of the soft skills. So I was able to massage what we needed to. So it was kind of win-win. So I figured out that I could use it to my advantage.

Manuel Martinez: So you’re able to use it to your advantage. And it sounds like you had obviously great experiences, right, with teams that just kind of saw you, especially, I’m sure a lot of it was you bringing your experience and kind of wanting to learn and not coming in, you know, like you knew everything,

Kim Snyder: Oh God no.

Manuel Martinez: but then also inexperienced. So you already touched on it, because the question I was going to ask is, at that point, did you feel like you being a female – and again, looking the way that you did – did you feel like that was more of a hindrance or more of an advantage? And it sounds like originally, you probably didn’t even think about either one until it starts to get picked out on purpose, or you’re –

Kim Snyder: Yes.

Manuel Martinez: you’re seeing the pattern.

Kim Snyder: In certain situations, I know it works well, right? Because again, women typically are, there’s generalizations, but we are better at building those relationships and the soft skills. And especially more when we’re dealing on the tech side, we’re easier at managing the people and setting those expectations, right? I’ve seen it across my career. And I think I started to learn that. And then I think also now that I’m thinking about it, probably my mom used to do that because my mom was a PE teacher. So who’s in PE mostly men, right? And she would coach and so she coached men or boys at that time, right? And she also coached the girls. So it just is something that came naturally to me.

Manuel Martinez: And I’m glad that you say that and you kind of made that correlation because that’s one of the things, especially with this platform and with other, again, I’m not the only one there, but there’s plenty out there, but it’s exposure, right? Again, your exposure, it wasn’t in tech, but it was with your mom being in – a PE coach, being in areas where it wasn’t common. So you’re like, “Oh, it’s not common, but to you it’s common because, oh, it’s okay. It’s not a big deal.” It’s not like, “Well, my mom was, she was a teacher and that’s all she did.” And or she was just a homemaker. You have experience of her being like, “Oh, well, you can do different things.”

Kim Snyder: Yeah. Yeah. I guess, I mean, still I do, like that’s the interesting thing today. When I meet the younger women in tech, they are definitely, oh, we need this, this group. And I’m like, I guess I still don’t see it, but I understand where they’re coming from. And I do appreciate the community aspect of it, right? So we met in women tech, which is exactly that. And I like it because I’m happy to see more women. I think that looking at it, they also are probably there for more community and trying to understand how to work with the men. And honestly, now I don’t know how it is to work with the younger guys, right? Like to my peers, if I was younger, I don’t know if it’s different. I just know I’m working with a bunch of old guys, which makes me not so young.

Manuel Martinez: And you’re right. I mean, we met at a networking event and it was a, you know, for women in tech and, you know, and business. And it was one of those things I’ve always been happy to support, like from an outside – so that was the first time I had been to one of their events. So one of the founders…

Kim Snyder: You do fantastic on that, by the way. Yeah.

Manuel Martinez: So this is for Thrive, for those that aren’t familiar. So it’s Thrive, Nevada. And one of the founders had asked me, you know, if I, you know, I’m always supporting from the outside, I’m always sending her people. She goes, do you want to be a part of it? And like, you’re an ally. And I was like, it’s funny because I had a very, I’m gonna say different reaction is, I told her, yeah, I don’t think so. And she was taken –

Kim Snyder: Yeah.

Manuel Martinez: aback and she’s like, well, why not? I go, this, I feel like this is a space for you, again, for women to kind of build community, to collaborate. And I go, I think the last thing that most people would want is, oh, here’s a guy that’s, again, not that I’m like the big macho guy saying, hey, here’s everything. Like, how can I help? And just meeting new people, I go, I would not have met you.

Kim Snyder: Yeah.

Manuel Martinez: people, I go, I would not have met you. But I had that reaction of like, well, I don’t know. Like, I don’t want to invade a space, which was, you know, she was very taken aback, like –

Kim Snyder: Yeah.

Manuel Martinez: No, I don’t think that. And, you know, I’ve met some of the other board members and the same thing is they said, that’s probably the reason that they wanted me on there is because the fact that I already thought about it that way, they’re like, that’s exactly what we’re looking for. And again, I don’t know what help I would or wouldn’t do.

Kim Snyder: Yeah.

Manuel Martinez: But I think, and just,

Manuel Martinez: I’m gonna get your perspective from yours. So I am of Mexican descent. I was the only Latino. So when I came in, every organization I was at, like, I was the only Latino. I get the idea of these groups, like, you know, there’s Latinos at VMware, and Latinos at Amazon, like all these different groups. It is to talk like-minded, you know, just to kind of build community, but similar to you, maybe because I’ve been in this field for a while, I haven’t found how that helps. And the reason I bring that up is because maybe you know, or maybe together we can figure this out. But like, what is the purpose? Like, how can I make that community better? What can I offer?

Kim Snyder: Yeah. I mean, I think that recognizing that there’s a community there and they probably want some privacy. Right. Now, I think because this is outside of corporate, I think it’s less private. If it was within corporate, I could see there might be more issues. I have done women in tech events within the organization and often it’s the men supporting and they’re the ones that were putting the money behind it. And then we will do some women in something or leadership. And sometimes the men will stay there and sometimes they will leave. It depends. I’ve seen them do both. Right. And I’ve seen the differences. Now, I would say it’s probably the same thing if it was in the Latin community, right? If you have a non Latino there and they would, I would imagine it’s the same thing or if it’s black or LGBTQ or you know what I mean? If you have a space, I guess, that’s set up for that. And I’ve even seen it in my national speakers association, which is traditionally an older organization. And we had a generation XY group and it was kind of the same thing when I remember they would come in and it’s like, well, we wanted a group to talk about things because we’re not talking about those things at the larger level. Like these people are older and established and we’re all newer starting our speaking career. And so like how – like, yes, we could provide the insight, but that’s our general meetings. We wanted another specific meeting. And so I think that’s probably where they would ask – and I’ve seen it happen in women in whatever X events, right? They will ask specific questions. I can tell you it’s the same thing. It doesn’t matter if it’s women and probably women in construction, women in tech, women in, you know, aquatics. It’s just, it’s the same thing. And I think they think it’s special or different and it’s not because I can guarantee the men have the same questions. I mean, I’ve tried to do a couple things for women in whatever and it’s like, well, then I don’t want to exclude the men or the other areas because people could use this information. You know what I mean? So I think it’s a safe space. I think that it’s just whoever wants to be involved in that. And so I think because you have a giving back feeling and you help coach and mentor that I think it works for you. Somebody that’s not interested in that probably wouldn’t want to be in that group, whatever their persuasion is, right? So I think that, you know, reaching out or questioning that was probably really good.

Manuel Martinez: Okay. So then you’re going through, you know, you’re starting to gain all this experience. And again, we’re never going to be able to go through all the linear, right?

Kim Snyder: Please don’t. [laughing]

Manuel Martinez: But now, as you’ve kind of established your career, you’re starting to gain experience. One of the things that we’ve talked about separately is kind of, at some point, early on in your career, it sounds like you and I did the same thing. It’s like, okay, how do I either make more money, learn more, do something that served me well, early on in my career, but then at some point, you have to start to be a little bit more strategic and think about it. And I think, had I started or had someone like you tell me that information earlier on, I probably would have made different choices, probably could have done gotten, and I don’t want to say I would be farther along in my career, but I think I would have different experiences that would help make me better in the long run. So how did you at some point transition and say, okay, how do I want to think about my career now, and what should I be looking for for my next job? It’s not going to be, hey, how do I make more money, or how do I get this new role?

Kim Snyder: For me, it was always job satisfaction. Like I want to feel good and I want to enjoy it. Right. And then the money will come and the title, but it was like, I’m also not stupid about it. It’s like, well I’m not gonna turn it down. And I’m also not going to turn the title down. So finding that balance and some people might be all money driven and that’s great. That works for them. It’s just not for me. So for me, I wanted to enjoy my job. And so I stayed in the same industry for 20, 30 years. Right. So I knew a lot of the players and that’s how I always got my job when I was ready going, okay, kind of bored here, or there’s not another place or they’re not getting the clients that I want to work on or the team is too new and I’m not learning from them. I was so other than the first company, the other companies were much smaller and they were more boutique consulting companies. And so I would always call up my friends like and ask them around like, Hey, how’s it going? What are you liking? What are you seeing in the industry? That’s how I always do it. And sometimes I was looking and sometimes I wasn’t and I was just like, Oh, really? Well, that sounds interesting. Or they’re rolling out something new. And I was like, Oh, they’re innovating. Ah, that’s someplace I want to go. Right. Like tell me more. And like, are you guys hiring? Like it was always not, I want to go someplace. So it was like, tell me what’s happening. I want to make sure I have a pulse on the industry. I’m checking out with my network because they were doing the same thing with me because I’m like, Oh, this is what’s happening. We have openings here or this area is not working out well. So I’m sharing likewise, right? Cause they want to know. So that always worked for me and finding out, you know, what I liked and again, what I didn’t like. So being really clear to yourself and however you want to vocalize that is up to you. And so, you know, for me, I started out on the tech side. I ended up switching over to the business side about eight years later. And the reason I switched over to the business side, the finance side is because I on the tech side was at one to three clients a week. And I was jealous of my accounting peers that were at the same client for months and months and months. And I was like, I don’t get to build a relationship with a client and even my team. I mean, at that point I felt like, you know, the tech consultants, we were interchangeable. Like I need X, I need Y you’re available done. And it didn’t matter if I was in Denver, I had to fly to Florida and it didn’t matter. Like I was flying all over. So I’m like, I wanted to cut down on that, but I wanted to build the relationship. And so when I was able to again, vocalize, you know, and it’s really hard to go from tech to finance, trust me, right? It took me, I had to talk to a handful of companies and convince them. And even when I got in that role, they kept using me as tech. And I was like, this is great, but I need this role. Like I came here and I almost kind of got to the point where I was starting. Like, if you don’t give me a role, I’m going to leave. Like you clearly don’t have a need for me. And so they finally did. And then I slowly worked my way into it. Right. And so again, being really clear about what you like and you don’t like being afraid to not stand up and look, they could have fired me and I would have just called another friend and said, Hey, what do you got going on? Right? Like, so that’s why it’s worth having the network. And they could say, Oh yeah, they don’t, you know, everyone said, what are you doing? Nobody switches from that. So I love that. And that was one of the things I learned. Again, learn what you like and what you don’t like and ask for it.

Manuel Martinez: And the only way to do that is to try different things.

Kim Snyder: Yes.

Manuel Martinez: So you mentioned, you know, kind of job satisfaction. So it sounds like you weren’t looking at job descriptions and saying, Oh, well, this looks interesting. Let me go research that, you know, or maybe you did. But it sounds like you are more kind of, again, through your network. Hey, what are you doing? What are you working on? What are the things that, you know, what are the challenges as opposed to, Oh, here’s what this role is doing. Here’s the skills on a piece of paper that I think I can learn, but not really know.

Kim Snyder: Yes and no. Because look, in consulting, I mean, we’re all – it’s going to be pretty much the same role, right? For the most part. So again, I’m going to move to another company because they have more opportunities, right? So better clients, different clients, different industries for me that worked. Because I was in consulting, it was pretty much the same. I didn’t have to research. Now I do remember researching at one point because I did think I got laid off or I don’t remember when I was between jobs, I said, okay, well, let me, let me look and see what’s actually out there. Right. And so I said, let me look and see, maybe I need to take a desk job at this point. Then I was like, well crap, what do I take? Do I take a project management role? Do I take an accounting role? And, and then I was also looking at consulting roles. And this is funny. This is where, you know, sometimes things just happen. So I was looking at all roles, but I wasn’t applying to any of the other ones. It was just kind of natural. I was like, God, what am I going to do? I’m going to sit there all day and I have to do the same thing. Like, I don’t know, maybe I should apply. Like I didn’t apply to any jobs because one, I couldn’t figure out how my consulting role fit. And then I was either really low or really high. And I didn’t want either one of them because really high meant way different expectations. And I was like, I wasn’t ready to meet that. Cause I’m like, if I’m leaving consulting, I want to slow down. Right. And so I don’t want to like basically replace one job with the other. So, um, I naturally didn’t look at those desk jobs. It just, I said, I’ll do it. And then at like two weeks, I’m like, I haven’t even looked at any desk jobs. Right. I’m like, okay, I guess it’s not for me.

Manuel Martinez: And then you kind of mentioned being true to yourself. And, you know, you try to explore, but then you had the, I guess the time to go through and kind of look back and reflect and say, Hey, you know, that that’s not me. So do you have a process now? Or did you kind of develop, like, how did you learn to be true to yourself? Not just necessarily from a, always just like a personality standpoint, but even from a role, like, you sound like you’re interested in trying all kinds of things, but at the same time you were like, no, no. And understood, like, what doesn’t fit you? So how did you develop that?

Kim Snyder: Some of it’s experience and some of it’s getting clear. And so I realized that if I wanted to try multiple roles, I would have to go to a smaller company. If I went to a larger company, if it says XYZ, I’m doing XYZ, like no ifs, ands, or buts, because it means they got somebody doing ABC and DEF. And I’m like, if I want to play in those areas, I can’t. I had to be really clear. Sometimes I wanted to do that and just go, let me go see what a big company is doing with XYZ. Right. And then other times I was like, Oh my God, there’s no way. So you have to try them out to see. I always liked the smaller companies because I had the ability to do more, right? And try more. It wasn’t just the job description. And so when you get in there and you get the personality, or you get to meet the owners or some of the leaders, you can sort of feel them out and you can feel them out online and look at the types of posts they do. I can do it based on comments from my friends that work there on how open they are. Cause it’s like, when I want to go in, I want to be able to do other stuff. I don’t want to just do my consulting. Like I want to help them grow and I want to help them do things that I can bring my entrepreneurial stuff to. And it’s like, will they listen to me? And so again, you have to be really clear about what you’re looking for. And then based on experience, then you look at those type of companies or industries, right? So I like to be more entrepreneurial. Generally that’s a smaller company. I was just at a really large company, one of the largest in the world, right? I could actually do some of that, which I was really surprised at. So, you know, so maybe that doesn’t hold still, but like, because that group, the consulting group was very small, they did think a little more entrepreneurial and they were open. So, you know, you just have to be, again, like clear on what you like and don’t like and ask questions. And so if you’ve got friends that are in that company or that industry, then ask like one of the roles I looked at was maybe product management, right? So again, entrepreneurial understanding, you know, a company’s, you know, base customers, rolling out products. I’m like, okay, that would be a really good fit for me. I’m like, God, for me to get in that industry and the foot in the door is really tough. It’s a very wanted position. I was like, again, at my where I’m at in my phase of life, not something I would do maybe 10 years ago, 15 years ago, maybe I would have done, right? But I didn’t even find out about that position until then. I love consulting. So for me, I just want to sit in the consulting world. I’m happy helping clients all day long. I’ve told people like, you don’t need to promote me. I don’t want to be promoted. I want to work with the customer, hands on with the customer. I will help you internally on projects, we will grow and I will do whatever. But I’m like, don’t take me away from the customer.

Manuel Martinez: And is it that – I’m going to call it generalization versus specialization, right? You didn’t want to be just XYZ or just these different things. Is that – for you, right? And again, doesn’t mean it applies to everybody. But for you specifically, do you think that that was kind of one of the things that has helped you have such a long career is – you were a generalist – now, having that exposure to different areas, I’m not saying that you don’t develop certain specialties, but I think –

Kim Snyder: I won’t, yeah.

Manuel Martinez: Was it easy? Yeah, you won’t –

Kim Snyder: And I’m okay with that.

Manuel Martinez: But was it easier for you to identify – as part of solving problems – identify patterns because you’ve seen it in different industries. You’re like, as much as like you mentioned, even with just with groups, you think it’s different. Like everybody thinks it’s my problem, only my business deals with it. But then you’re like, well, no, I’ve seen it in automotive, I’ve seen it in finance, I’ve seen it in these areas. So would that generalization help you in that aspect?

Kim Snyder: It does for me, but somebody else, it might hurt, right? So it depends on what your goal is. I would rather work on multiple things and be 80% than one thing and 100%. Right. And so I’m okay with that. I like working in different industries. So what I typically do, I don’t have to know all the nuances, but it’s fun to learn about the industries. You know, some of my peers on the project I’m at now, it would be helpful if I knew some of that stuff. But helpful? Yes, needed? No, not something I can research or learn. Not hurting me, you know, somebody will take a time and explain it, so.

Manuel Martinez: And now that, you know, you’ve had quite a long career up at this point, we’ve talked about this outside is just, you know, mentorship, networking, like all these different things. So did you have a mentor kind of early on in your career, midway through your career? At some point, was there somebody guiding you? And, you know, is that what kind of led you into like, well, now I want a mentor, I want to give back? Or was it the opposite? Similar to me, like, I didn’t have that growing up in my career. So now I’m like, Oh, if I would have had that, they would have been so helpful. I don’t want somebody else to go through that. Because there’s two chains of thought, right? Because I’ve worked in some places where I’m like, I’ll go through and I struggle. And they’re like, Oh, I want I had to struggle. So I’m gonna let you struggle. And I’m like, No, why would you do that?

Kim Snyder: What value is that?

Manuel Martinez: Well, you get to learn and you

Kim Snyder: Yeah.

Manuel Martinez: just, you know, like they had their justification, but that’s the way they approached it, where I was like, Well, I can still learn, but you can still guide me. I’m not saying similar to when you were troubleshooting. You don’t have to tell me the answer like, Hey, here’s what I’ve done. Here’s what I’m thinking. And maybe even just make me, you know, just bounce ideas off of somebody. So what kind of led you that route?

Kim Snyder: Yeah, I didn’t have a mentor. Yeah. And I think that was it, right? I had a couple of friends I would ask advice to here and there, but I didn’t. And I remember at one time I was going to ask for somebody to be a mentor. And then something happened. I was like, Yeah, I don’t think that’s going to be a good fit. After, you know, it was like, I was actually going to approach them. And so I figured I can just do it myself. And then yeah, like you, I said, I don’t want people to have to figure this out. So I do like, you know, my project management group, I’ve mentored there for three or four years. I mentor at startup Nevada, right? So part of being in large corporations is, you know, systems and things that I know that these startups, if they’re successful, are going to grow into. So like, Hey, let’s start building this now. So when you get there, the PM, the project management one, a lot of it’s about like relationships and networking and how do you stand out and what does this mean? And how do you handle those things? So I didn’t get those. And I, that’s why I give back so much is I want to help people so they don’t have to suffer like I did. Make it easier, right?

Manuel Martinez: Right. I mean, I think that’s one of the things that we need to do, right? You know, always talk about like the next generation and people will complain. And I don’t remember who it was that kind of had put a post out there. People talk about like, oh, you know, these incoming, you know, workforce, blah, blah, blah, blah, they complain, but they’re not doing anything about it to say, well, okay, instead of complaining, like, well, let me get some of these people. Let me help out. Let me find a way to give back instead of kind of perpetuating that well, nobody showed me. So they’ve got to figure it out themselves.

Kim Snyder: Yeah. Well, go set up a coffee and just sit around and have questions. Like, see, you know, what are they, what are they struggling with? I’m sure you could help them. Exactly. You know, I went to a business event and one of the gentlemen from the construction industry was like, who’s having a hard time with all these millennials and blah, blah, blah. And he’s like, yeah, you’re having a hard time because it’s your fault. And everyone was like, huh? He was like, you don’t know how to communicate with image. You’re raising your hands going there, the problem. And like, yeah, it’s you, you’re not reaching out to them. And I was like, Oh, that’s a really good point. Right. Like, and it was a room of a bunch of business owners and, you know, executives, and you can just see them like, huh, but this guy who’s, you know, he’s got the qualifications, he’s like, that’s exactly how we felt. And so we had to change how we were thinking. And now we have amazing team and we’ve got millennials and whatever the next generation is. And so we don’t have those problems. Right. And so he and his company have taken the time to reach out to those millennials and meet them. You know, I’ve had people that they’re like, Oh my gosh, these millennials. I’m like, but there’s some merit to what they’re saying. I said, whether we agree about it or not, like, you know, one of the things that always comes up is older generations, they work too much. I’m like, I totally agree. We do. We don’t work right and smart and we work too much. I’m like, I said, I appreciate that they’re making us look at things differently. And I’m like, whether I agree with some of their things or not, at least they’re making us look at things differently and things have to change. Right. And now with chat and everything else, they’re definitely changing. But I think the culture from the, the younger generations coming up, I think is really helping.

Manuel Martinez: Yeah. And sometimes it’s just that, again, similar to early on the conversation, it’s just an outside perspective. Again, I don’t have to agree with it or disagree with it. It’s just, okay, let me think about that a little bit differently. Maybe I don’t change it. Like, well, no, I, I work more because I enjoy it or whatever it might be for you individually. But again, it just makes you stop and question at least for a little bit.

Kim Snyder: Yeah. I mean, again, it’s about helping people, right? So it’s like, look, they’re not going away. Right. And we’re not going away. So how are we going to make it work? So we might as well figure out how to work together and everybody’s stronger. So, you know, I’ve learned a lot from them. I’ve learned, you know, one of the reasons I told you at the beginning that I, I lessened up going, I don’t have to know everything. It’s like some of them I watched them like, you’re bringing them into consulting and I’m like, let’s just see how they go. And I’m like, they clearly admit that they don’t know everything. Yet the client is not freaking out. They like to use to, and I was like, well, I’m going to go take that approach. And I’m like, you know, I’m my own way. And I’m like, well, see, look at that, I learned. You can teach an old dog, right? And so, you know, look, you, I can learn from anybody and I still learn. And I think that’s the important thing is like, you always have to learn, you always have to keep your skills current. And I don’t care what industry you’re in. Some you have to do it more, but you know, some of those industries you have to. And some of them you need to, and they people don’t. And so I think, you know, networking, always learning. I think communication skills are highly underrated. I think that learning how to communicate in a variety of methods, podcasting, video, video calls, calls with no video, right? You have to be able to communicate written, any way. And I think people don’t look at those enough. And I think that, you know, building the relationships helps. But I think there’s a lot of skills out there that are really foundational that I don’t care what generation, still work.

Manuel Martinez: I have two questions here, and they kind of align, but they’re a little bit different. So talking about communication, and something you said earlier about, you know, kind of advocating for yourself and, you know, just building that confidence. So you mentioned at the very beginning that you were in sports, and, you know, as somebody who was also an athlete, and played and don’t play as much anymore at a lot of sports, but you learn to kind of work with others. So my guess is that’s kind of where some of that came from. But you mentioned that you were also very shy, and now you’re not. So one of the, you kind of grew into that, and sometimes it’s just experience and being more comfortable with yourself. But I’m kind of thinking back to when I met you at that networking event. Like even now, like you are a very bubbly person, you’re very outgoing, you know, like there’s something and I paid attention to it there. Like people tend to gravitate towards you. And I had somebody, the reason that we met is someone’s like, you got to come and meet Kim. And I was like, okay, well, let’s go meet Kim. And then once I talked to you, I’m like, oh, I get why. But it’s interesting that that’s not how you started out. So what, what caused that change in you? And then also, what would you recommend to somebody to try and change that earlier? And again, that doesn’t mean you have to be the most outgoing person. You don’t have to be the center of attention, but learning how to kind of stand out a little bit, be memorable. Because even if someone hadn’t introduced me to you, just kind of being around you, like you and there might’ve been two other people where like they just, they stood out.

Kim Snyder: So that’s never my goal. My goal is to be me. So I would say that I probably stood out to my friends back then in my little circle, right? But I didn’t want to get beyond that again, quite shy. If somebody would have told me to be a consultant, I had to do public speaking, I don’t know if I would have done it because I didn’t like public speaking. I took a speech class in high school and I wasn’t very good. I remember speaking at a couple of my companies and not doing well at a couple of presentations, but I could speak in front of the client. And, you know, I remember walking into a client, one of those tough situations and like, oh my God, come in here. Like, hold on, we have some questions. Like I literally set my bags out the door, walked in and there’s like the CEO, the CFO, fortune 500 company. And I was like, I remember thinking in my head, Oh, ****, okay. I’ve got to like show confidence. And if I don’t, I’m going to be eaten alive, right? And I’m like, okay, what do I know? And what don’t I know? And I just had to start at the basics and they were asking me a bunch of questions like, well, what’s wrong and how are we going to figure this out? I’m like, guys, like I just walked in the door. I can’t tell you like, I’m good, but I’m not that good. Right. So I kind of use a little humor. And so I think that figuring out your strengths and not your strengths. So I did go to Toastmasters because I realized that it was not a strength of mine. And at that point I was doing a lot more presentations at work. And so it forced me to get comfortable. And then Toastmasters, I think just being aware of that problem also brought it up. So I worked on it. So I would say, you know, nobody had to point that out to me that I wasn’t comfortable. Probably people never even realized that I wasn’t comfortable, but I knew I wasn’t. And so, you know, whether somebody tells you or not, I would say, just go work on it. And again, you don’t have to tell people you can keep it to yourself. You can ask for feedback. But communication is always important. So if you can stand up in front of a room, right? It’s one of the things that people are afraid of. What is the top five things that people are afraid of? And I get it. Right. So I mean, there’s still moments that I’m like, holy cow, there’s a lot of people in here. And I, I, my self talk is okay, I know my stuff. I can deliver it. It’s not about me. It’s about them. And, you know, I still have to do that. Like, you know, and I, the only way that gets me out of it, it’s not about me. It’s about them. And I have information that they need to help them. And it takes me out of it. Otherwise I can go, I’m shy. I don’t like this. This is uncomfortable. And then nobody would get that information. And I would feel really bad because I wasn’t able to help somebody and I had the ability to like, I would think that’s really crappy for me. Like, just me.

Manuel Martinez: Got it. So then it’s really working on those skills. And again, not necessarily to be, you know, on a keynote speaker, but even within a small team of, you know, like maybe it’s not a presentation, but even just in meetings, being comfortable speaking up and knowing that you have information to share. And it’s not about, and I like the way you phrased it, it’s not about me and, you know, here’s what I have, but it’s like, if I don’t share this information, if I don’t provide them this, they may not make the right decision or framing it as you’re being selfish by not speaking up.

Kim Snyder: Yeah. I mean, shyness, they tell me shyness is a trait of selfishness.

Manuel Martinez: Okay. And where did you hear that?

Kim Snyder: Yeah, I don’t remember. I was, I think I was some self-development and I was like, they’re right. And it came about for me in two ways. So one of them, somebody was giving me a compliment and I was too shy to accept it. And they said, you’re too shy, but you’re, you’re not helping that person and you’re turning that person away. So by you not accepting it, it’s about them, but it’s about you and not them. And they’re giving you something. And then there was another time it was like, yeah, I’m shy. And I can’t remember what the rest of it was, but I was like, Oh, they’re right. It is about me. It’s about me not feeling comfortable or confident to say something, which means that it’s not about, it’s all about me and not about them. And like the situation wasn’t called for that. So it’s been kind of interesting, you know, I was very shy. So, I mean, I really was, I was very shy and quiet and I still have my moments, not as much. I don’t know at one point because I had to go speak and do all this stuff that it’s kind of gone away. But I don’t know. I just don’t want to, I don’t want people to walk away with something because I could have helped them. And so I think that whatever level you’re at, right, it doesn’t matter. Like you have information that’s relevant to people. And so maybe it’s not the people in that room at the moment, but maybe it’s people sitting like next to your desk that you can help, then help them. You have information that can help because you’re always, you know, one step ahead of somebody and you’re also one step behind and that’s okay. You just want to talk to the people that are equal or behind you. And there’s always those people. And so just make sure you’re helping those people.

Manuel Martinez: And one of the other topics that kind of came up here is, as I hear you speaking, it sounds like early on you didn’t have it, but maybe over time you developed confidence. And I think a lot of times, even with speaking and everything that you’ve kind of mentioned, I think sometimes we have that idea of again, comparing ourselves to other people and saying, okay, well, I need to be a better communicator. That means I need to go from I don’t speak up in meetings to now I’ve got to give presentations in front of a hundred people. And that’s not the case. Same thing with your confidence. Again, maybe, you know, with you being shyer, it took a little bit to feel comfortable and this is the knowledge I have. This is the knowledge I don’t have. And just being comfortable with who you were. How did, and maybe you know, maybe you don’t, but just kind of reflecting back, like how do you think that you started to develop that within yourself to say, okay, I’m confident, comfortable, whatever the word you want to use, but in myself and knowing this is who I am. This is what I know. This is what I don’t know.

Kim Snyder: I would probably say probably the last five or ten years. I do remember walking to clients going, God, I feel like somebody’s going to like figure out that I don’t know all this stuff. Like I still – like it wasn’t that long ago that I felt like, oh my God, I feel like a fraud. Somebody’s going to figure me out someday. Right. And I’m like, really? Like I’ve been doing this for 20 years. And so I remember because I was helping and coaching other people and whether they, we formally called it that or not. And I remember like, and it was always the women, never the men, which is always interesting. But I remember some of the women, you know, I’m like, well, why don’t you do this? And she’s like, I can’t do this. And I’m like, you’ve been doing this for 20 years. You know your stuff. Like, listen to yourself. And then I remember catching myself going, oh my God, I’m in the same boat doing the same thing. Like, and I don’t remember which came first or they both did, but I was like, yeah, like again, I’m very clear on what I know and I’m very clear on what I don’t know. And so I’m okay with that. It’s like, you have to feel, you can’t know everything, right? Now as a consultant, I can probably find everything between Google and friends, you know, and other and peers, but I don’t need to, and I don’t want to. It’s like, you just have to get really clear. You can’t do everything. And you just have to understand, I guess, what you want to do and what you like to do and stick in that lane.

Manuel Martinez: So I know we’ve touched on a lot of subjects and a lot of information, and I know you still have plenty more and there’s a lot of good ones, but I think we’ve covered some of the, you know, just prior conversations that we’ve had and just kind of getting to learn more about you, you know, like mentorships, important communication. I think we’ve touched on a lot of these different areas. Is there anything that I haven’t touched on something that we kind of maybe glossed over, like we didn’t give it the full attention that you think we should have? I want to give you the opportunity instead of me just asking you questions and say, okay, hey, Manny, like this is, or Manuel, this is one of the things that we didn’t cover enough that I really think is a key takeaway.

Kim Snyder: I would say it goes along the lines of finding your strengths and mentoring, but I would add coaching. So I did pay for some coaches and you can pay for some coaches if you think there’s other areas. Typically, if you pay for a coach, it will get you there faster, right? Like a consultant. So, but be really clear about what you want and a good coach will help you get there. So I would say definitely along those lines, right? So again, there was blocks that I had that I wanted to get through to be more impactful and influence and, you know, get where I was getting at the time faster. And so you can do that for a variety of ranges. You can get, you know, coaches, typically coaches you have to pay for mentors. You don’t have to, but it’s a different relationship. So I would definitely say that I would say the soft skills. I don’t care what industry you’re in and who you are, whether you’re, you know, Latino or women or young, old, it’s the relationships and build it before you need it. Really, you really do. And, you know, for 30 minutes a week, pick up the phone and, you know, message five people and you might get one of your friends calling back and just, what’s going on? How do you like your company? This is what I’m doing. And like, you’ll find out stuff that’s happening in your industry or other industries. Even if you’re not looking to move, just, you know, do that. I think it’s very underrated and it’s 30 minutes and people think it’s such a big deal. I’m like, it’s not, you know, text them, message them on LinkedIn, whatever it is, just get ahold of people and see what they’re doing. Because you are helping them as much as you’re, you know, they’re helping you. So, I think it’s, it should be a two-way street. So, I would say those are probably the areas that I want to make sure that we emphasize.

Manuel Martinez: And on that, I want to touch a little bit more. You mentioned coaching and mentoring. You said that they’re kind of the same thing. You know, one you pay for, one you don’t. But I also think that there’s also a little bit more kind of nuance in those. And I just, I want to get your experience because, you know, I have looked into possibly getting coaches and just understanding, right, again, things that you learn later on in life. Like a mentor is somebody that might help guide you and, you know, and very general. And I had someone else tell me, but you can also find a coach. Now, some coaches you pay for and some coaches you might not. The difference is, is usually when you’re finding a mentor, it’s somebody that takes a long-term vested interest in you in whatever that may be. Maybe it’s your career, maybe it’s personal life, whatever it might be, that’s their role. Whereas with a coach, like maybe you’re not my mentor and this is where it might get kind of blurred a little bit. As I might say, “Kim, I think you’re really good at, you know, the way that you present.” Or, you know, “I really like the way that you communicate in written form.” You might still coach me in that, but I could also pay a coach to say, “Maybe I want you to help me with resume writing.” Or, “Maybe I want career development.” Like, “Hey, I want to move to an executive level.” So, like, in your experience, kind of what were the differences and what made you kind of go with a coach at times to say, you mentioned one of the advantages, they’ll help you get there faster. But what else? Like, what else if someone is deciding, like, “Should I pay for a coach or, you know, look for one versus a mentor?”

Kim Snyder: So I think if you’re thinking about a coach, maybe for career-wise, rather than like a life coach or whatever. So a leadership coach, career coach, if you’re going to do it in the vein of, “I want to get better faster. I want to move up. Maybe I’m not getting promoted. Maybe I’m not getting the roles that I want. Maybe I keep getting the same XYZ things to work on.” Then I would go to a coach. They would be able, like, you could be very specific about what you want them to help. Now a coach typically is going to ask you more questions and help you kind of self-discover. I, my particular coach, a couple of times I’m like, “If you’re asking me questions because you think I’m going to figure this out, I’m not. So you just tell me because it’s just going to like, I’m not figuring this out.” This is the third time we’ve visited this topic. They’re like, “Okay.” I’m like, “A mentor is somebody I think that is more guiding you. Maybe long-term, like they’re either in the industry, maybe in the company, like a coach is outside of that. They might have experience in your industry, but they’ll help you with like leadership. It’s like more soft skills, leadership skills. I think a mentor might help you within a company. So you also have a mentor. You also have like a champion. So sometimes you’ve got the champion or an advocate in a company. So you can have those. So an advocate and company is very good because they are connected. They are typically a leader. And when things start coming up about, “Oh, who should I position?” They would start positioning you kind of behind the scenes and start grooming you and help building those relationships as opposed to a mentor is like, “Hey, you should start finding somebody to help doing that.” Or look at these areas or associations to start to belong into. So it’s kind of like a soft coaching, but it’s once a month, once a quarter, and no payment. So it just depends. So again, if you want results, you typically have to pay for the results.

Manuel Martinez: No, that’s awesome because that’s probably a topic that hasn’t really come up much. I think maybe one other person mentioned coaching and, you know, just kind of hearing your experience of saying, “Hey, if you want to accelerate your progress or in a specific area or it could be, you know, a life coach,” just any number of areas, you’re really paying them to accelerate whatever it is that maybe you know, maybe you don’t know, and you think, “Hey, I want to improve my leadership,” and you’ll get a leadership coach and quickly realize, maybe not.

Kim Snyder: Yeah. I would say it’s probably along the professional development route, which to me, I guess networking is part of that. So coaching, mentoring, receiving and doing, but also reading books, taking classes. So you should be reading books on those areas. You should be in industry associations. You should understand what’s happening in your industry. So if I’m in tech and I work in healthcare, you should be in those two industries. Firm believer of professional development and keeping up with what’s happening in your industry because before you know it, it’s passed you by and you’re so heads down that you don’t even know new technology or things that they’re looking at or laws or whatever it is. You should be looking at those and I think that’s probably one area we haven’t touched on, I think is very underserved, which I would put Thrive in there. It’s women in tech, so it’s tech focused, right? And there’s women from all industries, but you have to go in there and they’re doing an amazing job with, Cynthia and Jen are doing an amazing job with programming. That stuff, you would be paying a lot of money for that. They’re bringing in very high caliber speakers and learning those things to think about, like you’ve got to do that. And I don’t see people in corporate doing that. I don’t see a lot of professional and personal development. And it’s not like if I have time, it’s like you need to make time. And I think that’s the other thing I’d see in corporate is yes, you’re early, you can work your 50 hours or 60 hours, but you still need time to grow personally and professionally. And the older you get, you have more time typically. So it’s like, you should always be doing that. You should always be learning a skill.

Manuel Martinez: And I’m glad you mentioned that. You’re right. There’s a lot of times, so especially for me, like, that personal development, professional development didn’t come until, you know, probably later than it should have, but then also kind of you mentioned the entrepreneurial side. Like, I’ve known a lot of entrepreneurs and I’ve talked to them, and they do a lot more kind of personal and professional development. Now, I get it, part of it’s because their business depends on it, right? It’s not just their career and their paycheck, but, you know, there’s other people that are dependent on them, and within the corporate structure, we don’t do that, but I noticed the people that do do that, and especially when I started paying attention more to, okay, how do I grow personally and not wait for my company to send me to this training or do all that, like, it started to accelerate exponentially.

Kim Snyder: Yeah. Like your company, if they don’t have a policy to send you, go take your vacation time. I used to do that. I used to pay for my own conferences. They’re not going to pay me. I don’t care. They will get the benefit. And then guess what? I probably won’t be there long because if they don’t value it, then our goals don’t align. So I will be moving on. So you talk about another reason I want to leave. Like if they don’t value educating us on certain things, then I’m not going to be there. You know, it’s like, if I’m going to invest in myself and they’re not going to invest in me, then hey.

Manuel Martinez: Yeah, and it’s a lot of – it goes back to we touched on it a little bit – it’s do the little things now, and over time, they’re going to compound, right? Like, hey, I went to this conference, the very next week, I got a raise, or I got another promotion. It’s not going to happen, but little by little, they’ll compound.

Kim Snyder: Yeah, cause you will stand out cause you’ll be thinking different. You’ll be communicating different. You will be influencing different, right? Like you’ll be coming up with different ideas cause you’re thinking about things differently than everybody else. Cause you’re putting yourself out there. Yeah. I mean, my goal is, you know, two conferences a year, you know, handful of books that you can read and like implement them and whatever those skills are that you want to learn.

Manuel Martinez: Right. Kim, this has been a fantastic conversation. I always have high expectations when I, you know, have guests and, you know, just like most of my other guests is like, you exceeded that. Like, I just… It’s been a little over an hour and I feel like I could still talk to you for another two hours.

Kim Snyder: Me too. This has been awesome, Manuel. Thank you so much for having me and allowing me to share some pieces, you know, to hopefully help. And you know, I was happy to hear more about you cause that was one of the questions I asked and thank you for sharing your stories cause we, it sounds like we had a very similar path, right? And I’m hoping that, you know, some folks that maybe are earlier on in their career can learn from us and start doing it now and save themselves 20 years.

Manuel Martinez: Right. Especially because, you know, and hopefully through these conversations, they see, oh, there’s similarities. Like, as much as we’re different, like, there’s going to be commonalities and somebody can say, oh, wait a minute. She experienced that. He experienced that. There’s a good chance that I might experience that. And, like you said, hopefully I can avoid that. Or maybe you won’t always avoid it, but you’ll recognize it when the time comes.

Kim Snyder: Yeah. Yeah. I think as long as you can hear that it’s out there, cause I can tell you to do it till you’re blue in the face but until you experience it – so, you know, just look back on, you know – Manny’s got some great topics, great, you know, people in there you’re interviewing and just listen and see what areas that, you know, are coming up. So when they do, then you can come back and re-listen and learn and cut down on that learning curve.

Manuel Martinez: Got it. Well, thanks again. And for everyone that continues to listen and support, thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to kind of learn from all the different guests and their experiences, really to kind of help you out. And, you know, hopefully the next time you encounter Kim, you’re able to go through and kind of build a relationship with her. So continue to plug in and download the knowledge, and until next time. Thank you.